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Winstar Craps Ante

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Hello All; I went to the Winstar Casino in Oklahoma last night. The only craps table they have employs the card craps model. HOWEVER, after the cards are shuffled by the CSM, three cards are dealt onto the table. One of the cards will be turned over...say it is a 5 of diamonds, the dealer(stickman) slides the card over a small glass screen which then creates a 'dice throw' image onto the large monitor. The 'dice throw' has NO resemblance to the card that was turned over. The 5 of diamonds became a 'dice throw' of 4 and 2 for a point of 6. This happened several times, none of the turned over cards became their respective dice throws. It seems that whatever card is turned over is then fed over the glass screen...then a COMPUTER generates the dice throw based on the card? Is this correct? And if their state constitution disallows games based on the throw of dice, why would you allow computerized dice throws? Please assist. Thanks.

Bubble craps machines are probably considered 'slot machines' just as much as video poker machines are. If the bets are handled electronically and no staffers (dealers/croupiers) are needed, then it is probably considered a 'gaming device' just like a slot machine. Last Sunday I was bored and felt like making the 1 hour drive North from Dallas to visit WinStar and play some dice Craps. I had never wanted to play the card version they had previously, but now with dice I was down for it. Bankroll: $400; Table Bets: Min $10 Max $500 + $1 Ante every comeout roll; Walkaway: At -$300 or 3 hours whichever came first. Craps is LIVE at WinStar World Casino and Resort. WinStar World Casino and Resort. August 17, 2018.

  1. Haven't played table games there, but I know they have the OK rules of having to pay an ante and the 'no-dice' cards craps table., 09:44 AM #3 Brandon.
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  3. WinStar is operated by the Chickasaws and the Choctaw in Durant is ran by the Choctaws. As others have said, antes for table games and the roulette and craps are done with cards. I've been to both. The hotel and pool at Choctaw are better and the food and golf is better at WinStar.
Winstar used to be my home casino. The way it was explained to me by the card-roulette croupier was that the constitution is concerned with literal dice and and roulette balls. Besides, the computer isn't actually using or throwing dice, it's just using a RNG.

“WinStar is a Chickasaw property, and their boundaries are north of the Red River to south of the Canadian River, and I don't know how far east and west of the Chisholm Trail. Something like 100 miles wide-ish. WinStar is the closest casino to the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex, at 70 miles, and right on I-35. WinStar World Casino and Resort has more games than any casino in the world! Offering 370,000 sq. Feet of casino floor including 8,500 electronic games, 100 table games including craps and roulette, a 55 table poker room, a 3,500-seat Global Events Center, two 18-hole championship golf courses, a state of the art golf academy, and nearly 1,400 hotel rooms.

Thanks; Assuming RNG is random numerical generator, how would the consumer/gambler know whether it is programmed with a bias. My 20 minute observation noted 'no' hardways 4's, 6's, 8's or 10's.

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Thanks; Assuming RNG is random numerical generator, how would the consumer/gambler know whether it is programmed with a bias.

no way to know for sure

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i say
i thinks also the programmers do not even know, by the method used, how much of a bias their rng they use actually has
they feel it is good enough
they should just use 2 sets of 6 cards like in CA
simple and easy and fair
my opinion
Quote: J1ohnny

My 20 minute observation noted 'no' hardways 4's, 6's, 8's or 10's.

well the chance the next roll is not a hardway = 32/36
so for 20 rolls without a hardway = abouts 1 in 11
30 rolls = abouts 1 in 35
what do you think the chances are in 20 minutes to see no hardays are?
maybe 1 in 1 million?
so the rng could be rigged?
they could program the software
to produce a roll that would cause the most losses per roll
but i think most would stop playing after losing everything every time they play
if you owned the casino, say
how would you have this done, cant use real dice
to make it fair?
it matters

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Sally

what do you think the chances are in 20 minutes to see no hardays are?
maybe 1 in 1 million?
so the rng could be rigged?
Sally


That means you'd have to roll 120 times in 20 minutes, or one roll every 10 seconds. Assuming 2 rolls a minute, odds of no hardways are about 1%
J1ohnny
Ante

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Well, thanks to all who responded. I just did not have a good feel for this card crap game as compared to a standard dice game. Just continue to observe, maybe become a don't pass bettor.
why don't they use one of the electronic craps games available in the market? There's at least 3 different ones.
They use a 36 card deck. Each card corresponds to a combination of dice. For example 5 of diamonds is a 4,2. 6 of clubs might be 2,4. So there is no RNG involved outside the shuffler. Last time I played there they handed out a sheet of paper showing what all the different cards/results were. A new deck is used for each roll.

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why don't they use one of the electronic craps games available in the market? There's at least 3 different ones.


True craps is probably not approved by the state. The cards are a 'work around' to allow the game. I really don't know this for sure though.
PachucoBro
UPDATE:
Figured I would add to this old thread since it came up in Google...
As of August 2018 Winstar now offers $1 Craps games using dice. Tables are available 24/7. There is a $1 ante which is required by state law.
Twitter - /WinStarWorld/status/1031963236361482240
@WinStarWorld: Craps with REAL dice is LIVE here at WinStar! Check it out in the Beijing and Vienna Gaming Plazas now!
/WinStarWorld/status/1041799844996833281
@WinStarWorld: ... Open 24/7, minimum bets are $1!

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